The Difference Between Brokerage and Software

Welcome to another episode of CRE OneSource: The Unspoken Truth. I’m Craig Coppola. This is my son Charlie, president of OneSource. Today we got a little switcheroo. Today I’m going to interview Charlie and we’re going to talk to him about some lessons that he’s learned running the company.

So we started the company four and a half years ago. I was the CEO, founder, and Charlie was the co-founder with me. Started out as vice president of whatever, everything, and then December of 2024 Charlie moved into the president role and I ascended to state CEO. But he’s been running the company since December of ’24, so it’s been a year now that you’ve done everything. Now, you were doing everything before, but I was more day-to-day, and now I haven’t been there for a year. So what’s it been like the last year?

Way different. Way different not having you around as much. You’re still around, thankfully. But yeah, those first couple of years I was, like you said, doing everything, but at the same time I felt like I was doing nothing. And I think I really had to grow into the role. And I think with that came my confidence that I could do it all. But it was very inefficient, I felt like, for myself, where I was trying to do a lot and I was, you know, unprepared for it. And now I feel like the last year or two I’ve really owned and stepped right into the role.

Well, so walk us through that a little bit more.

Yeah.

So when you said I wasn’t unpre… you weren’t prepared because you had never done…

Yeah.

…all of these things. So just walk through recruiting, managing, training people. That’s a key, because that’s become you. It started out with me and you kind of tag teaming it, but now it’s you, right? There’s people I don’t interview, anybody.

Yeah, at my last company I had interviewed people and kind of managed people, but I had never built my own culture. I had never made those full decisions myself. So I had experience going through the motions and doing some of that work, but owning it and having the team dependent on you to do it was new. Yeah, I think one of the things, we have hired interns from Grand Canyon University and had success doing that. I remember early on you were always pushing me, go, we need another two interns, we need two more, we need three more.

And I think what you knew that I had failed to really learn was great people are hard to find. And it’s a commitment and a continuous process to finding great people, and that’s how you do it. And if you’re not continuously working on it, it’s really, really hard to just find great people. And so I would find, I’d hire someone and then I’d stop interviewing and I’d go try to train them, and you know, some of them would work out, some of them wouldn’t, and then we’d be right back where we started. And so that was a learning that took me a year or two to really come around and see your way of looking at things. And now I would say I’m the one saying we need two or three more, because we know one or two won’t work out or be what we want them to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That’s a massive change, right? That’s a massive growth there. So let’s break down the parts of the business. Finance, you’ve really from day one set the budget. That’s your background. You were good. You were working at Forward Tilt. You were doing that. That’s been a non-issue, right? Learning the financial side of the business.

I think the only learning for me was on that we were burning money, and what was reasonable versus not reasonable, and like how quickly that was. Like, we were burning money way too fast early and I was like out of control, and now I feel a lot more in control, just knowing the pace we should move at and how these decisions and how long, you know, we make should influence the business. But I’d say even early on, even though I knew the finance and I had the spreadsheets and all that stuff ready for you, you had to play a much bigger role early on in that.

Yeah. And we missed everything, right? We missed…

We didn’t know. We didn’t know what we didn’t know.

Naive.

Now, yeah, we were super naive. We thought we could sell quicker.

Yep.

We ramped up too quick.

Yep.

So on that, how about on the operations side? Just the idea of, you know, the back-end software, how do we, office space, you know, just…

Yeah, I think some of that I feel pretty good with, but the biggest learning curve for me has been operating a software company. How is software built, and working with these engineers or different people with different skill sets, you know, doing work way over my head? That was a real learning curve, and it’s still an area I’m working on. But I’ve come a long way in terms of how is software developed and best practices for that part of the business. You know, that’s been a learning curve probably for both of us.

What, yeah, I still don’t know, right? You’re my buffer between the company and the engineers. I mean, that is such a specialty to do it. Do you think that most CEOs or most presidents would come in as a technologist first and then start running a company? Because you came the other way, and it’s harder, right? You’re not software native. You’re not an engineer.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it would give you a leg up if you knew the software side going into a role like this. For sure.

Yeah. What is the… so if we did that, you, obviously recruiting, office space, you know, was a big step for us. Two years into this we moved out of my home office here. We were all here. It was crazy. That was a crazy year. Everybody we had, I don’t know, what was the max people we had at the office for…

I want to say like nine or 10, in that little room that Craig’s in right there. I mean, it’s big for what it is for one person, but it was small for nine people.

We had Jackson in the bathroom.

Bathroom. We would go out back and the grill, and put our laptop on the grill and treat it like a standup desk.

Yeah, that’s pretty good. And then we got office space. We’ve now moved again. And so the culture really started taking… I mean, we had a startup mentality culture. Kind of hard to have the garage startup when you’re in Arcadia, you know.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our orange trees in the backyard and the Camelback Mountain view out the window. It felt like a startup because we were crammed in there, but we had nice facilities.

We were pretty nice.

Yeah.

This idea of, I want you to explain a little bit further the idea of selling software instead of just selling a service.

Yeah.

Software as a service, right? That’s what we are. SaaS.

Yeah. I’d say two things. From day one you preached, look, we are going to build this face-to-face, relationship driven, hands-on, and I think we did a pretty good job from the beginning of doing that. We always were hands-on, you know, in the trenches, diving in, trying to figure out the questions, the problems, working with our customers, building the relationship. So I think that’s great.

I think one thing we learned was, hey, we can be great on the Zoom and they can sign up and buy the software, and the very next hour or the very next day they will log in and use the software without us there. And the software has to stand on its own. And that was a real learning for us, was no matter how great we are, the software still has to stand on its own, because that is an interaction between our customer and our company. And if it’s not a great interaction, they’re not going to remain as a customer with us. So that was a real learning, where the software is a big piece of this, obviously, you know, in hindsight. But you know, we had to work hard to get our software to a point where it was adding value without us in the room.

Yeah. And we have to think about that every day, right? You’re still thinking about it.

Oh, yeah.

What… you said earlier this idea of the first couple years you always felt like you were behind. We spent a bunch of time, because I’ve been managing people for a long time, and then you said in the last year or so you’ve kind of gotten ahead of it. You kind of can see yourself. You understand what you need to do. Tell me, help somebody out there that’s starting a company. How do you get there, besides working? Right.

Yeah. Commitment. Like, commitment to getting there, because if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t have gotten there. No doubt. I use this metaphor a lot. I think you taught it to me, right? What happens is you get a lot on your plate and your mind expands and you multiply and you have all this stuff on your plate, and then over time you can simplify it and understand it and start to own it. And what happened was the first two years was a two-year journey of me going like this. And so maybe even more than two years, but it was very frustrating to not feel like I was getting it.

And I think it was because you and I were both committed to taking on more and doing more and growing more. And so, you know, if I didn’t have that commitment, this would have been super overwhelming. And even with the commitment, there were moments where it was super overwhelming. And I remember crying, you know, to you, and just feeling super frustrated, burnt out, disappointed. So certainly hard times along the way.

There’s been, I don’t know, we’ve had at least 10 go-go moments, right? And you’ve been really kind of like the go guy. Yeah, let’s do it. Tell me, because that’s not natural to you. So tell me, what do you feel like? You feel like… how do you get there?

I would say we both were, you know, I’d say we both… like, I definitely remember you being just as optimistic as I was, even though we didn’t have sales or customers to show for it. And so I think both of us were pretty always committed from the beginning. And I think it was also, you know, we were getting those little wins, and I think we always said, “Hey, one or two more wins and we’re there.” And of course there were always one or two more around the corner that we didn’t see.

And I feel like once this started coming around and I started wrapping my head around everything, and same with you, we started being able to see those obstacles or wins around the corner. But it took us a while. But we were always blindsided and surprised by, hey, we got this win, we got that win. Hey, we’re doing great over here. Oh, shoot, there’s still two more things that we need to really, you know, check, you know, get over. So, yeah.

I sent you a thing this morning on first-time founders and second time. Did you see it yet?

I don’t think so. No.

And there’s this four-wheel drive vehicle, and he’s in this mud bog. And first-time founder, he’s like, the car is going all the way over and on the side and he’s getting through it. And then the second-time founder, he’s on water and it’s like a car, like smooth.

Yeah.

And I think we were there. I mean, this was there. And so, but I think we’ve said, and we said this all along, this is kind of this… you wake up now and you’re like, “Wow, the last four years I’ve really gotten to know everything about a business.”

Yeah. Yeah. I think you have a quote, you say, like, if you knew what you know today, would you have started the business? And everyone always says no, because it’s so hard. There’s so much more hardship and adversity than you expect. So yeah, it’s been really hard. Way more challenges than I expected, and you expected. But I’m grateful for it.

More money. I think too…

Yeah, really inexpensive and inefficient learning. And I’m grateful for it. No doubt. I’ve benefited from it. But you know, that first-time founder experience is expensive and inefficient, and I think all the time, if I were to do this again, I would be so much more effective from day one than I was this time. You know, but here we are, right?

So tell me, top 2026 goals. So like, here you are four and a half years. You literally, it’s your one-year anniversary. Congratulations on being the president of the company. So what do you see for 2026 for your role, and what are you trying to do with the team?

Yeah, I think one thing that I’ve been thinking about is over the last year or two I’ve gotten a lot of reps hiring, recruiting, managing, and I really feel myself starting to lead more. So I want to lean more into that and do more leading, not just hiring and managing. And so that’s one. I think the second piece is our team has grown to where my leadership and management style was one-on-one conversations, and I feel really good in those conversations, and we have good people and they trust us and they like us and I like them and trust them. And I think I have an opportunity for myself to grow in the public speaking, or really being a leader in front of the team rather than just in those one-on-one moments. You know, I think that’s an area for me to grow over this next year.

Good. What’s the biggest surprise that you think, if you just had… what pops in your head when you say looking back four and a half years?

I’d say two things. I’d say the obvious one is how hard it is and how many setbacks we’ve had. We talked about one of our big setbacks the other day, and just, that kind of goes to the second point, right? So how hard it is and how many setbacks there have been in the first four and a half years. The second one, I would say, is just as much growth as we’ve had and as much success as we’ve had, there are still really, you know, big challenges that we still want and need to accomplish and overcome. And I think two or three years ago what I would have thought is, hey, when we get to that point where we are today, the challenges and the problems will be much smaller, and it doesn’t feel that way. You know, it still feels like we have massive challenges to overcome. And so that’s surprising to me.

You said one of your biggest lessons learned is this idea of hiring great people, finding great people, and the continuation of that. Could you give, as we wrap up here, maybe the top three things that, you know, that you’ve talked to Amanda, your wife, about, or you and I have talked about, you kind of come back to? Lesson one is always looking for great people. It’s a never-ending task. And then part of that is growing those great people. They’re great, but they need to grow as well. So that would be a really, really big lesson for you. Any others, two or three other ones that you can share?

Yeah, I’d say one that I share often is, you know, my last company, it was a startup and I ran finance, accounting, you know, and I was part of the management committee, but we had a founder and a CEO and it was her company. She started it, she ran it, and she was fantastic, and I got to watch her run it. And I was in those conversations, I was in those rooms, and I think, like, all the time, today, like, I logically understood and agreed with how she did things and was pretty removed emotionally. It wasn’t my company. That was a huge change when we started this company. And from the beginning, it was the first month, I remember moments where I’m like, dang, this is on me. And I felt the urgency and the fear and the fire. And so I would say now not only logically do I see her point of view, but emotionally I feel it, and that’s been a new thing for me.

Being in the arena. The truly in the arena, where you’re hiring, and you just had to let somebody go who we liked. And I mean, that’s a great lesson. We talk about this all the time, about being in the arena.

That’s a really good one, and there’s no replacement for being in the arena. You know, all these, just even if you’re in the room, you’re not in the arena.

I know. And that’s like, it’s so hard. I try to teach our team. I say, “Hey, if you want to start your own company at some point,” like, that was a big diff… big change for me. So as best as you can, and I don’t even know how you could replicate the emotional feeling, but as best as you can, act like you’re an owner. Treat yourself, and you are, right? You have equity in the company, but yeah, act.

Well, brokers, you know, the advent of the big massive team has allowed people to not be necessarily in the arena. Like, I’m on this team, but there’s really somebody out there that’s really bringing the bread in and I’m just executing. That’s not in the arena. You know, you think you are, but if you really want to be in the arena as a broker, go on your own.

Yeah.

Or be the lead broker of the team.

That’s when you’re really figuring it out. If we’re talking to the brokers here, it’s really unique, right? We’ll schedule meetings with a bunch of our customers and brokers and they’ll have to reschedule pretty often, more than we thought. And it’s because they eat what they kill. It’s all about the client. And if they have something that’s urgent, why would they jump on the software demo when they not need to go put that fire out with their customer? And it’s a unique mentality that you can’t really understand or replicate unless you’re living it yourself, you know.

Yeah. 100%.

Yeah.

All right. Last question. You’re now president of a successful software company, and you’re telling your next guy who wants to do this. What do you say to him?

Don’t run.

Yeah. Good luck. Good luck. I’m excited for you. I would love to watch and help however I can. But good luck, because you’re going to be in these situations and these emotional… down to your, you know, stripped down to your core, and you’re going to see what it’s like. And you know, I remember one of our early team events we had, like early days at OneSource, we brought in Andrews Warner to come talk to the company. And he’s former SEAL Team 6 and now the CEO of a startup software company here in Phoenix. And he came in and spoke, and he’s super passionate and, you know, great, great, like he’ll inspire you to run through a wall.

And one of the things he said, he’s like, hey, being at a startup company, there’s pressure every single day. And he said, but to give you a software metaphor, the pressure is a feature, not a bug. It’s part of the experience, and it’s a good part of the experience, because the alternative is you’re going through, you know, the motions, collecting a paycheck, some nine-to-five. And he’s like, that’s not the life you want to live. You want to live a life of purpose, and the startup world is where you do it. And so I think it’s so true, and I think if you have that perspective, it’s a good one to have when you’re starting your own thing or you’re leading the commission-only life. Because, you know, what’s the alternative? Some nine-to-five that you’re just going through the motions.

Well, and you said it earlier, cap that with a commitment. Like, when it gets dark and when it gets hard and when it gets rainy and when it’s cold and you’re not doing well and you’re not selling, the commitment is what shines through.

Yeah. Key team member leaves. It’s tough, right? You need the commitment through those moments.

It’s all good. That’s great.

Cool.

Love talking with you, bud.

Yep. Thanks. That was fun.